I’ve had a couple of members assert that there was some sort of legal reason that would prevent us from venting the fine dust outside. So I’m unable to find any decent layman’s information on what a woodshop is allowed to emit in terms of saw dust. So I’ve been looking at Ohio emission standards for “Fugitive Dust”, of which sawdust would be an example, along with a TON of other things.
These appear to be the laws that apply:
From what I can tell from reading through these laws two things:
- If you pay enough money you can get your super special operation a named exemption in law. (Looking at you “Empire Detroit Steel Company, LTV Steel Company, Republic Engineered Steels, Incorporated, The Timken Company, or USS/KOBE Steel Company” or any subsequent owner or operator of such facilities", looking HARD)
- We cannot emit dust that is 20% or more opaque. (Which is the say the dust + air mixture emitted from the pipe)
As such I can’t find any legal reason why we shouldn’t blow the fine dust out the window. This all ignores the obvious hobby nature of what we’re doing, and the fact that we’re probably going to actually emit less stuff than a metro bus exhaust. Does anybody have more information I might have missed?
Q: What the difference between a software engineer and a lawyer
(Would also accept “Software engineers are employable”)
Spring Grove Ave meet Sawdust,
Sawdust meet Spring Grove Ave.
sawdust, eat spring grove avenue?
It was an introduction. Bad humor sorry.
Are we not worried about the cars that get parked out back any more? Granted this is probably a very small amount.
Also please remember sawdust suspended in air will go off like a powder keg and ignites very easily. Also once it falls on the cars it can become abrasive or worse in a light rain turn to a paste…like over spray.
Also as environmentally conscious as many members are, do we think it’s a good idea to be throwing MDF particles, and whatever else we cut up with whatever kinds of adhesives outside?
Also please remember sawdust suspended in air will go off like a powder keg and ignites very easily.
Sure, most particulate matter has this problem, and honestly this is a problem no matter what we do with it, since it remains suspended the entire time it’s traveling the various ducts. Actually it’s a bit more of an issue if we vacuum up bits of metal with the hose, if they might strike the impeller, generating a spark.
So I don’t see what this has to do with where we blow the dust, filter or outside.
Also once it falls on the cars it can become abrasive or worse in a light rain turn to a paste…like over spray.
It’s not going to fall on the cars, planning on using the far window, above the lounge.
Everything down that wall will get covered including ac units as the have fans on the hot side that draw air through them. As for an ignition source we would have to look at the specifics however static discharge is always a possibility. I’m not a lawyer nor do I work for the EPA however so the legality of it would be something to look into huge as fines can be something that would cripple us. Then we have to look at the fact are we blowing this stuff into an area we own or is leased to us? Given the carcinogens that are in treated and bonded matrials is it a great idea to be venting them outside? I just don’t want to see the hive step into a grey area. We could likely get an expedited response from the Fire Marshall / inspector if we ask the fd around the corner.
I know the dust is something we have to deal with because of what we do… on the other hand when someone else has to deal with the dust that is not making things and the car they drive end up with a dusty film on it depending on wind direction, they will be pissed.
Please do not take this as I am not for finding out a way to remove dust from the hive as I have bad allergies and sinus problems. Lol I would love the dust out! However I would like to get it cleared beyond us trying to decide if it falls within regulations or not. I’m all for finding a solution to our problem and am willing to help with figuring out our options if it is wanted
Hmmm I feel like we’re not communicating, and I’m not sure why. To be clear, this is just the fine dust, not ALL the saw dust. About 95% of the dust goes into the big canister at the bottom. What’s left is a very fine powder, not unlike what you might get from driving down a gravel road. The canister to collect this is about a gallon or two, and collects maybe an inch or less every few weeks.
Anything vented outside should easily blow off, wash off, etc. I’m also not finding anything online about sawdust causing paint problems, if you’ve got some additional info, please share. Further most of what we’re going to be venting is essentially sand, which is pretty neutral unless you’re spraying it.
Of the 5%-10% fine dust that goes out the vent, it’s going to be about 10-15’ from the ACs, and 20-30’ from any parked cars, and it will mostly disperse as it hits the outside air.
I’m not a lawyer nor do I work for the EPA however so the legality of it would be something to look into huge as fines can be something that would cripple us.
Agreed I’m also concerned, which is the reason I’m asking, and looked into it, hence the links to the various Ohio ordinances linked above. I ignored the Federal EPA because I know it’s legal in some parts of the country. However the fact that I can’t find anything online about the subject leads me to believe that it’s not an issue. From what I’ve read, from the sources linked above we are in compliance with the laws, which are primarily targeted at places like sawmills, and coal plants.
We could likely get an expedited response from the Fire Marshall / inspector if we ask the fd around the corner.
Good idea, I’ll look into it. There are also a few professional wood working shops around Norwood, I’ll ask around.
Wouldn’t it be better to ask the fire marshal that does the building inspections and garden st? That way if a problem comes up we had the ok rather than have to deal with a possible situation that could cost the hive money. I fully understand its not a large amount and what the filters trap. If it were our building and property I’d say go for it but we are renters.
Did a bit more poking about. There’s a cool questionaire/wizard on the Ohio EPA site for answering questions like this. Not knowing what else to chose I selected a commercial business of 20+ employees. The only question that seemed to apply was whether or not we were dumping 10 pounds or more per day, which we easily are not.
We might want to check on the fumes from the dirty room, or the paint booth we’re considering adding. I suspect both would also fall under this restriction.
I don’t understand, I just said it was a good idea, and I’d look into it. What did you think I was suggesting we do?
Sorry I thought you were just saying to check with the wood shops I misunderstood. I don’t want the extra dust inside at all and am just trying to think through paths that could bind us up.
Gotcha, so you’re playing Devil’s Advocate, and taking things to extremes. I wasn’t sure where the disconnect might be.
For the most part I think we’re going to be fine. It’s a small amount of dust, out of a port high on the wall, in an industrial part of town, for the few hours each day we run the dust collector. The EPA was really worrisome to me because it’s so hard to tell what might be expected.
BTW, I put a chain around the air cylinder in the dirty room, so no need to worry about that anymore. Got tired of walking past it and thinking it was going to fall over and start a quick game of “Surprise Rocket”.
Thank you for that, it’s a full tank but the gas is contaminated with an oily residue and I have to get it swapped out. It was one of my extra tanks and was going to throw that on the mig and the smaller on the little hobby tig. I need to make a new wooden cradle to hold tanks down in the suv
Andrew - did you see the tank retainer I left for it at the hive? I never got the chance to attach it the day I brought it in and then I forgot about it.
Kevin - I didn’t realize that large tank was argon (I’m used to seeing the green argon tanks). Do you want to swap it or can anyone swap it? the tank on the mig is 25/75 I believe - if we are going to swap it to the tiny tig, i imagine we should wait till its empty and just get a 100% argon tank right - unless there are places that will swap at a pro-rate. I’d like to get a 100% argon tank down there ready to go for tig welding.
I have no problem with switching it to an argon tank. They will just take it in as a tank and give us another one. I was just going to bleed it out and take it over or if someone else wants to run it over awesome. That is a tank that is owned not a leased tank so just make sure on the bill they do not chare a tank deposit. The last fill was done at airgas a few years ago however whatever is in it is horrid and doesn’t shield at all. It even has an oily residue. However it’s marked and we just need to tell them were switching to straight argon
No, sorry I did not. That might be a better solution.
Okay, so most people have seen these: http://rainbowsystem.com/rainbow-system/how-it-works/
Odds are, if a second cyclone to drop the smalls is not gonna work, a water trap in a similar style might. Ported to the drain, and on an auto cycle, the filter may need little maintenance. A few imbedded led’s and semi transparent plastics not a prob… this is something that could be printed I bet.
No dusty filters to change… self cleaning cycle… what is not to like?