I think having the “big” CNC and the Shapeoko would be sufficient for the Hive.
personally I think the large CNC is sufficient for now. We have had 2 cnc classes and have a third one planned for the 10th of december. seems like if demand were going to be high it would be right now (people chomping at the bit to use the new tool they were just trained on). seeing as how there doesn’t seem to be much of a wait to use it, I think we can get away with just the one.
Plus on top of that, when I asked Coy what needed done on it he said he needed to bring a board in and would do it soon (that was prior to the first CNC class on November 12th- still hasn’t arrived at hive). I was hoping to have both of them running for the CNC class so students can do practice runs at the same time. Since it seems unnecessary now (classes seem to go just fine with only one), it’d be nice to use that real estate for other tools. I’d love to see some more unique wood working tools or similar go there.
Tiff
Small insert for those non wood-savvy members who’d like to know more about storage:
Vertical wood storage is super important to have, especially for sheet goods. It’s really one of the best ways to store it in order to maximize useful space, give individual people the ability to look through and move stock, and try to prevent warping. This is one of the reasons we have so much storage like this. (The storage we have with the wires was the best hybrid option at the time for BOTH sheet and board goods with some materials we had and the time frame for completion; it is not perfect by any means 
In the future, horizontal or very shallow vertical storage would be AMAZING to have for boards).
Now, ideal vertical storage is either perfectly perpendicular to the surface and fully supported on both sides (think like clamped bookends), or is at a shallow angle leaning on a flat support like an easel. Neither is very efficient for the individual spaces we would need. Sheet goods can also be stored flat, but this makes it really hard to move wood around after you get more than a few sheets stacked together. After a certain height of rows, you also can no longer move pieces on or off the shelves without the use of machinery, so we would lose the ability to store at the same density per area. Vertical storage uses the natural resource of high ceilings as useful space.
Really we all should be cycling through personal wood with active projects, or for classes by buying in quantities that can be used in a few weeks/months. Unfortunately, in the Hive, wood warping is just something that we need to accept will happen over time as wood is stored there for an extended period. No matter what we do, the space is humid, leaky, and not a temperature stable environment.
Bonus fun fact: Did you know that boards made from the same tree can warp totally differently based on how they were dried initially and cut from said tree! Kiln dried vs. air dried vs.flat-sawn, vs. quarter-sawn, vs rift-sawn. Fascinating. 
I see the large CNC being more valuable. Personally, I’d be looking to use the CNC machines for speakers. Being able to use whole sheets of 4x8 wood vs. having to cut them down first would be a big plus. Space is limited, seems like there is a lot more interest in having space than having a second CNC when the big one isn’t being used at full capacity. If cnc usage takes off to the point where the big machine is always busy, we can deal with that then.
There was once a wave solder machine at the hive. Which never got used, despite being totally functional. And now it lives in my basement. And so it goes.
-D
I’m more a metals guy, and about an hr away. For me, the wood routers are a learning opportunity, that meshes with mach 3. That being said, I’d rather get a plea in to Tormach, and put a unit where the Medium wood router is. Dreams… ah well. I could scrounge up another computer for the medium router. “Hey! You using that old box?” Works wonders.
I think the build crews that got the machines together did a wonderful job, the problem now is the skillsets and activity to get the second router up have lagged a bit. If the second router was work ready, this would be an entirely different conversation. For most users “needs a computer hooked up = not working”. The bottleneck problem is worth considering, but signup sheets and reservations and planning mitigate that.
The only majic fix I can see is making screw legs, and having the medium router lower down/raise up and put a work table on top/over the whole shebang for when it is not needed. Might be a big project. Some casters and it could be semi mobile.
I think the big CNC is enough.
As for warpage, I see two racks, both of which I would expect to warp equally, for the same reasons. And this is before we discuss the loose boards just piled up against the wall. I see no support at all to prevent them from warping.
As for new CNC users, the only person I’ve seen using the CNC after the classes was Tim, who brought his own plywood. If there’s an uptick we’ll know by the 31st.
Mhorne - its not just that it needs a computer hooked up to it. That would be an easy thing.
I also think that Big CNC + Shapeoko is enough. The medium CNC is not currently getting used, and I really don’t see it adding enough value to to justify the floorspace it’s taking up.
As for the birch plywood storage…I like it that we have some there for use in the classes and for people to buy for personal projects. It’s nice stuff that’s not super easy to find, and it’s difficulty to bring in your own 8’x4’ sheets without a truck. I would actually like to see Hive take ownership of it, buy it from Coy and maybe let the COO or woodshop warden manage distribution to members.
The “just-lean-it-against-the-lounge” storage method is supposed to be temporary. Both the plywood and the metal shelving currently using this method need to be relocated or removed. (I’m partly responsible for the shelving being there, and am willing to discuss and help move it).
Anyway just my 2 cents.
Mike
The metal shelving (nor the wood) there don’t bother me because we have definitive plans for the shelving and wood. Soon we will be putting up more pallet shelving, and that situation will change. Further the shelving is a hive project, to everybody’s benefit, and not one person’s personal storage.
Yes it’s nice stuff. It’s pure birch ply wood that Coy managed to get an absolute great deal on but at $48/7$0 for a 48 (1/2 or 3/4) and I think $25 for a 55 which is decent grade stuff and not as nice as the 4*8 stuff. I’m working off memory so Coy please correct me if I’m wrong please! Coy even mentioned this is a long standing poorly communicated offer. Doppes delivers for $10 just about anything we need with a day’s notice.
Mike might have the best idea. I’d be okay with it, if was a hive owned supply, rather than somebody’s personal stash.
Coy if you want to propose selling the plywood, I’ll reduce the proposal to just getting rid of the 2nd CNC by Dec 31st. Further the offer to help move any and all of it still stands.
Actually, this is all it needs:
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A computer hooked up
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Ethernet cable connecting the SmoothStepper & Computer
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A 2x4 to hold the dust collection hose in place
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surface needs planed for leveling
If someone brings a 2x4 I will set it up this week. I will use my own laptop until someone brings in a PC just to get it running. I need to do this regardless if I’m going to sell it and we have no use for it.
Mike & Andrew:
Of course I’d sell it. Why would I want to have my money tied up in it when I can just buy it back when I need it. It’s my opinion that it’s nice to have supplies at the space. It should probably be labeled better but I figured after the racks get up we could worry about that. Not everyone is comfortable or would even want to strap a sheet of plywood to their car or can make it down during times when Doppes delivers.
Not to talk myself out of cash but why would this make you guys more comfortable? Wouldn’t it be better for the space to use my capital for a service vs using it’s own? This is a Maker Space and people are supposed to share/contribute to make things better. It’s not even being sold for a profit. At the end of the day does ownership really matter if it is there for everyone to use equally?
Again I should probably just shut up and let you write me a check!
A couple of reasons.
First, I really do want more space, and removing the 2nd CNC addresses this. It’s become cramped with the addition of the lathe, I’m about to add a new work table, and I’ve got a few other ideas that will also take up some space. We also do have people looking for room, moving this around might be enough to fix this short term. By the time we need the space the rack is taking up, we’ll probably be done with it. If you do sell it, then I don’t feel bad about moving it somewhere else, or putting it into a better storage system.
Second, what’s bother me, outside the use of space is the idea that people can grab anything they want without rules or discussion. We really can’t do that, or we really will be out of room in no time. Lorin, myself and others have spent a good deal of time organizing and compacting stuff, I don’t want to go back to just dumping things in willy nilly.
I agree supplies at the Hive is a generally good thing, but it should be something we decided upon together, rather than having somebody take up two 3-4’x4’ sections of space without a discussion. This discussion has made it clearer to me that there are people who would benefit from having the plywood at the Hive, where as before I heard nobody express an interest.
Finally, if you really want this, then please propose it yourself. Seems like you’ve got the best idea of what’s a fair price, and you can advance it to the rest of the Hive.
This storage was discussed and planned. There were drawings, floorplans, etc.
I’ve posted the prices I have paid before.
I’m not looking to put in any Hive work at this time. It’s a thankless job (you will see). People that do things like yourself will have people complain that don’t even have a dog in the fight.
I’m happy doing my own thing and only looking out for the things that care about.
My recollection was that the 2nd CNC simply showed up at hive without formal notice. The case with the wood storage is similarly informal but less vague.
I did a search on the mailing list and found no advanced notice to the list indicating that the 2nd CNC was even coming to hive. First mention is in meeting notes for 12/22/15 https://wiki.hive13.org/view/December_22,_2015 which state:
“CNC Update - we have a new one! Will hopefully be turned in to a CNC plasma.”
In March, a proposal was put forth to update the big CNC and the area as a whole.
In May, another proposal was put forth which includes organizing and cleaning the space, and trying the 2nd CNC with a trial period to last through July. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/cincihackerspace/b8JXNKylwE0/discussion. I see that a floor-plan is mentioned, but I can’t find the floor plan mentioned. There is no mention of wood storage.
In July, the big CNC had needed repairs / upgrades done and was operational.
As I look at this, I am realizing that it is almost one year since the 2nd CNC showed up, and it has not been used.
It seems to me that there is a clear pattern of Coy bringing in new tools, making major changes without notice, and then justifying them by proposing formal policies ex post facto.
Again, it is clear that this is not about a CNC machine or a floor-plan or space, but a drawn out, unfortunate turf war.
What makes me uncomfortable about this, is that it has set a dangerous precedent for us. Without consent, or permission (as no official action has been taken, like a vote, or granted permission from the warden/COO), the continued storage of personal materials, regardless of intent, means anyone can bring down “supplies” as they want, and store them for as long as they want, until they are sold or used. To me ownership, and official action really do matter.
Other people have brought things down with the intent to use themselves and sell materials to others who also need it, however these have been kept in whatever the current state of personal storage existed at that time (a storage box, a wood slot, a metal slot, under the metal shelves labeled). As far as written records can tell, the wood this thread is referring to (or at least some of it) has been here for at least a year. I think it is reasonable to try to deal with it officially at this point.
The Hive is getting more materials that aren’t just leftovers or donations for everyone to use and I love that; I’d like to continue that trend, as we’ve talked about this benefit for many years and have only had small amounts of limited items in the past (the scrap metal, the filament for 3D printers, the materials in the fablab, etc.)
I think buying some sheets to keep for the classes and others to use would be fine. We would need to figure out the quantity we want to stock and hold a vote on the funds for it. It could even be a dual vote like “Hive would like X number of sheets for $X.00 and the rest need to go in approved storage or leave the Hive”. Any votes clearly proposed by tomorrow can be voted on next week in a timely manner.
As far as the medium CNC goes, I think this is a good month-long time frame to finalize opinions especially since classes have become a more stable thing for the CNC area. The last voted proposal for it expired in July, so I think it is time to reflect and decide, since we’ve had several months leeway without any type of pressure.
Well Lorin, it showed up initially for me to get working and permission was granted from the COO (ask him). It was supposed to leave then things changed so I proposed a vote (which passed). It’s funny how people remember things.
Again, I have spent way more time on this than I ever wanted. I’ve voiced my opinion and if we want crap storage for CNC plywood so be it. Make a proposal, take a vote, it’s a democracy! We will figure it all out even if it’s wrong. I have hope that our members and leadership have enough vision to solve our problems and do what is best long term. We are a growing organization and things are getting cramped. Clearing this area is a short term fix.
Getting the lease in my opinion is one way to make this happen. We would have more room for more tools, storage, and projects (even PTD). If only we focused on that (it’s been over a year and maybe closer to 2) vs arguing with one another. I guess working with Garden Street has proven to be too difficult for our leadership. I bet if someone had the wherewithal to walk over there and have a real conversation something could get done. I would have to think they would at least match the terms of our current lease vs leaving it vacant.
As far as the medium CNC I am open to any suggestions or proposals. I will hook it up tomorrow to show everyone it works. I have no problem selling it, leaving it there, buying the parts (myself) for someone to put a rotary on it, converting it to a plasma, or any other crazy ideas that someone comes up with. I really don’t care what we decide to do with it.
Elly, I agree about the storage of materials and having policies in place. I believe this instance was circumstantial and wasn’t planned to work out like this.
Alrighty, this is slowly devolving into non productive tiny snips back and forth. Which turn into arguments on list.
We’re finally about to move forward on two things that have been year long issues. Let’s please keep a good discussion flowing, instead of directly or side-handedly accusing people of stuff? Trying to stop a negative mailing list deluge before it happens, that’s all
We’ll propose some concrete votes and expectations by tonight, move on, and become better together.
After all the discussion, I’d still like to propose that the 2nd nonfunctional CNC, and the plywood be removed by Dec 31st. I’m will to amend this if somebody else would like to propose buying some sheets for Hive use.