Vote to get oscilloscope for lab

The feature exists, it's not any different than using a game genie or entering an unlock code.

I believe the DMCA says differently.

Let’s agree it gets complicated.

My (non lawyer) understanding is that cracking encryption falls under the DMCA.

Changing a setting to get a different function does not.

If you use my example as a legal defense you get what you paid for. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I believe that would essentially qualify as circumventing a software lock. It’s pretty clear that the purpose of the file is to lock down features in the device, and to force people to pay extra to get those features. Personally I have no trouble with doing this at home, where I take the risks, but I don’t want to Hive to get sued. I’ll admit the risk is very slight, unless we get a disgruntled former member who wants to stir up trouble. Further we’re now on official record talking about disabling the software lock before the purchase.

Anyway, I don’t see this being resolved, but if the plan is to buy a cheaper version, and circumvent the software lock to get the more expensive capabilities, let’s stop talking about it over the mailing list.

Please show me where. I have a very good understanding of what is in the DMCA (and the updates to it) and know that the DMCA is specifically targeted at preventing the bypass or defeating of protection mechanisms. Section 1201 makes it illegal to circumvent technical prevention measures to change the format of a digital work that you have lawfully obtained, but it doesn’t cover something similar that isn’t protected. The Rigol devices are not protected by any means… in fact, their own tools are used in this process. There is also no language in their licenses that specifically prohibit it.

Just saying…

Bill

If anyone is curious here is a link for the DMCA, my (Non-legally binding) understanding though is that it would not cover modifying a hardware item, but more so modifying and/or distributing software.
https://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

Let me just add that the hack on Bill’s 2 channel scope was probably the #1 reason that the maker community adopted it so readily. Now it is the #1 scope on ebay and Rigol is dominating the inexpensive scope market.

These hacks have been around since the beginning, and it’s a win win for Rigol. Sell 2x as many scopes to the makers and hackers AND, sell overpriced versions to schools and institutions that won’t hack them. Otherwise, they would have closed this loophole. It’s pretty easy to fix this in a firmware upgrade, but they’e had these predictable hacks in every entry level for the past 5+ years.

Finally, the “unlock codes” are not incredible encryption hashes. It’s just a service code (sorta maintenance mode) – could probably get this simply by asking nicely. It’s certainly not fancy if folks figured it out the moment the scope hit the market. You don’t even need the upload programs out there, just telnet in, put in the service code and change 2 hex digits in the serial number.

Once again, end goal is change the letter B to E and you’re in business. It seems, almost… too easy…

Please show me where.

(a)Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures.— (1)
(A)
No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. The prohibition contained in the preceding sentence shall take effect at the end of the 2-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this chapter.

In this case the work would be the software and the additional features unlocked by changing the serial number.

Further it appears that companies have used this in the past to get things shut down.

The Rigol devices are not protected by any means… in fact, their own tools are used in this process.

They have a setting that needs to be changed which they request that you go to their site and pay for the to access the information. That would be the definition of a key. Now I’m not going to argue that the key is by any means a good key, or a great protection mechanism.

The use of their tools is irrelevant. I can also use Visual Studio to disable the protections on Microsoft games, but Microsoft does not want me pirating their games either.

Anyway, I’m going to bow out of this, it’s get WAY off topic, and derailing Brad’s proposal to buy a scope.

Andrew, they are expensive because one needs to measure down to the nanosecond, not only that, but over and over so that 1 billion samples line up against each other perfectly. In the case of a 100Mhz scope, we’re talking 10 nanoseconds…

Electricity moves close to the speed of light. An oscilloscope’s function is to measure the time domain in electrical signals. This is very very hard to do in the digital world, hence, the expense.

Really, if I had a $400 budget and needed a scope, I’d get a 4 channel 350Mhz Tektronix. Yep. It’s never been a better time to get an analog scope. I’m totally willing to use a calculator or a pen and paper for the measurements and math…

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-2465A-Analog-Oscilloscope-/182468065744?hash=item2a7bf1b9d0:g:mTsAAOSwfVpYshU5

Actually this discussion is helping a lot. I am no longer debating whether to go digital with my next scope upgrade.

(Ignoring the DMCA discussion)

Yes I was thinking about an older “better” scope but the storage is the main issue for me.

The new stuff can store millions of points and allows casual examination.

I bought a Tek 2445 4 channel for home, but I use my new Hantek much more because it is easier.

If we would like to prowl eBay for a nice analog scope that could be another proposal. :grinning:

I don’t think an analog scope purchase is worth it for hive. If we have a decent digital scope everyone wins.

We have some analog scopes there already, too, I thought.

Yes, some “vintage” scopes.
I’ll take some pics of them.
We could use them as backdrops for a Frankenstein movie or a Cold War drama. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Still good for teaching about analog stuff.

Nothing as cool looking as my big scope,
the Labotomatron:

image.png

I feel like a mad scientist when operating this thing. It also has an amazing green glow. Seriously, look at all those switches. Bad-ass!

It doesn’t matter what you do on a machine like this, it just looks really complicated and extremely important (or dangerous).

What’s the problem with “vintage”?

image.png

Dr. Strangelove :flushed:

So I am settling on a Rigol DS1054Z for $399
We can get a logic analyzer for $220
And the function generator for $50-$300

So everything falls under the original $1000 vote request.
Do we want to separate out the function generator and logic analyzer in another vote?

I would lean toward a “electronic lab improvement” for $1000.

Brad

So should I post my votes here 79-80 posts deep and wonder if it will be counted or should me make a new thread? :joy:

No, bundle it all together. They’re all very useful pieces of equipment. No electronics shop worth it’s anything would not have one of each… if not more.

Bill