I wasn’t implying Nanc’s comment as a smart ass one… however this is a pretty charged subject so something that looks in good fun to one is taken as an I hate you by the other.
Although I am not a member anymore, I can resist to give you a few comments on the subject:
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I agree with Coy about the simulation of the machining on Cam Bam, is a big missing feature. But you can use a simulator that will work as good as (maybe better) the built-in in vectric or fusion one. It costs $250 http://www.cutviewer.com/
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The Hive have an unlimited number of license for the space of CamBam, each member who want to purchase the software for personal use will have a 15% discount.
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I might be wrong but I don’t see any machining operation that Vectric can generate when Cam Bam can’t… but maybe Coy already encounters one. I am curious to know which one.
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Cam bam is the only one that can read GERBER file to engrave PCB. I am using it on my 3020 CNC and it’s pretty handy.
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I almost agree with Jon, Fusion can generate Gcode for Lathe but Cam bam can too! Vectric Aspire can’t
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The big thing on Fusion is the implementation for generating G-code for 4 or 5 axis. To the best of my knowledge, Fusion is the only one to do 5 axis for free.
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Fusion is free for Hobbyist and they planned to get money for the files uploaded in the cloud and the royalties paid by the partners like Mc Master-Carr.
That been said, you can choose any of these softwares, and do awesome stuffs. It’s not always about the tools it’s about the way you use it!
Julien
After the meeting I would like to modify the vote.
Changes:
As coy mentioned there is no other fees, we would only need $1995 for Vectric Aspire. I will round this vote to $2000.
Second if the vote for Vectric Aspire does not pass. I would like to offer a second vote for the the Vectric software: Vcarve pro. This software has a price tag of $699. (Round vote to $700).
The second vote will not need to happen if the aspire vote passes as this includes the vcarve software.
Please clear up how you want this vote to go.
Do you want to do both votes next week?
Do you want to try to vote for Aspire first and if that doesn’t pass do a vote for Vcarve pro next week?
Regardless I will vote no on both. It seemed like everyone who has used CAM software that I talked to at the space think that the significantly lower cost options are just as fine at vectric for the money. Lorin still offered to do CNC router classes for whatever CAM tool.
To those who are going to vote on this please at a minimum do a google search for “vectric vs cambam” and “fusion 360 vs vectric” before jumping to conclusions based on what we have said and see what people online are actually saying about the two pieces of software.
Jon
Same week.
First vote for aspire. (2000)
If passes great. No need for vote 2.
If it does not pass immediately following vote for Vcarve. (700).
So we are basically voting on do we want the top tier version the bottom tier version or neither. As the bylaws are setup we vote for dollar expendatures for a proposed item. So that’s why I set it up this way.
I vote no on both. Here is why:
I think we are putting the cart before the horse. If the majority of the membership could use ANY of these tools, I’d be totally in favor of making them available to the membership. The fact of the matter is, this isn’t the case. There are a very select few folks who are capable of using these tools with good result. The majority of the membership are going to need some serious fucking classes, and I’m not talking about a 10 minute walkthough
I think the “cart” here is the software and the “horse” is a plan to train folks to use the tools. Perhaps we should be looking at investing in training from a third party / professional trainer rather than buying new software? In any case, these tools are only as good as the education of the people using them. Until there is a concrete plan to enable training for the membership, I’m not in favor of the hive spending collective funds.
-D
As I will not be there I vote yes for both cases.
We have people willing to train. With Vecrtic, Coy made mention of willing to train. But he only is willing to teach using Vectric. (Coy correct me if i am wrong)
In general Lorin mentioned a willing-ness to train.
There is no cart before the horse, we have training compacities, even more with vectric.
Do we need to focus on setting these up, definitely! It hasn’t happened in the past as it should have imo, but to teach we have to teach the software as well as the hardware, can’t do that for a software we don’t have access to. I think it would be like me teaching you MS Paint to hand you Adobe Photoshop. (Two photo editting software, both can change an image the same way, with the right steps, neither anything alike.)
Show me the plan. If I were to be buying a $2000 tool I didn’t know how to use, I’d be making sure there were training classes on the calendar before spending a dime.
That’s also why I voted no to this. 
-D
Let me promise to teach a class on a specific software we don’t have yet… I wouldn’t commit a specific time to this until we did have the software.
So a plan for cnc classes? Saturday. It’s on eventbrite and the website. Also was posted in the group. That’s a class on the hardware aspect. (A general 101 as I gathered)
There is no accountability at the present time. Coy has said he would train on ventric. He hasn’t said when. How many times. How many students. In his originaly proposed plan, he would be making money for training (and paying for Ventric himself). If the hive were to be buying ventric, would he still want to be making money for classes?
So far, a limited portion of the membership has absorbed a majority of the costs of these machines/tools. And that’s fine. Let the few take advantage of their toils. Before GENERAL FUNDS are spent, I want to see a much more concrete plan to guarantee that at least the majority of those interested can become proficient.
As soon as there is a plan for training, I will vote yes to purchase whatever software and tools are necessary. Until then, I think we need to focus on how we are going to make these tools accessible through education before spending thousands of communal funds on tools that benefit only a tiny minority at present.
We obviously don’t see eye to eye on this. Let’s just agree to disagree. I think I’ve made my point very clearly.
-D
p.s. And the classes that are already planned for Saturday will focus on the tools we already have, not the tools you are having us vote to purchase. There are no classes on the calendar for the tools you want the hive to purchase.
Of all the people in the world, I’m shocked that you aren’t demanding more accountability. Isn’t that your M.O. ?
“Plan!” “In writing!” “What about the details?!”
Compare your attitude towards this with your posts earlier this evening re: lease, Dan. Totally opposite.
-D
I’m going to step in here and say it is time to chill out.
Sleep on this, wait a bit tomorrow, count backwards from ten, whatever. Going back and forth on the mailing list is not going to do any good when people are worked up.
If you want to discuss with someone send them a direct email, but CHILL THE F OUT!
Let’s see, a piece of software compared to a legal contract… big difference there. So yes I will demand more accountability for something that can get us in court or evicted at worse case.
You are really pushing the line here. Making this personal much? Completely inappropriate Dave. I’d be happy to discuss the reasons for getting the software but I will not tolerate a personal stab.
I am locking this topic until the morning as this is a completely unproductive.
This is no longer a discussion about the issue at hand. It is becoming bickering, petty and personal.
This is inappropriate to be posting on the shared list that hundreds of people are subscribed to, please take personal differences elsewhere, or message and discuss privately.
If this continues publicly I will temporarily bar the people causing issues.
In light of a conversation I just had with Coy, I will vote yes for the $700 Vectric package but not the more expensive package. He’s willing to offer enough classes once Vectric Vcarve is purchased that I my concerns over accessibility are addressed.
-D
I’m curious, who does the router belong to? Is it Hive13 property at this time?
AFAIK, the large router is primarily privately funded and owned with a limited amount of funding from the space.
-D
I’m not sure of exact numbers but if I had to guess Ryan, Ian, & I each have $1000+ invested into the machine. As far as I’m concerned it’s property of Hive13. My time and monetary investment was all in hope to give us better tools and to prevent us from ever purchasing another tool and charging for it like we did on the laser. Having tools readily available where people free to create things without having to worry about cost per minute use was/is very important to me.
The second CNC (slightly smaller ~3x5 cutting area) that recently arrived at the space is currently mine. My plan is to first get it up and running as a backup/secondary CNC for us to use and train on. Always nice to have multiple machines running when you are doing a hands on training class. I may also consider turning it into a plasma cutter down the road.
Coy
Having the big router table and big laser is a big step up for Hive13’s capability. After visiting i3 in Detroit in 2011 I was a bit jealous of their tools. But I don’t think it’s fair for a few individuals to have to just donate so much. It seems like it could have been set up as a loan that Hive13 could pay back. It’s something that everyone can benefit from in one way or another.
Brent I agree with you. For us to pay back these individuals we would have to vote for that, which I would in a heart beat vote yes. All I’d ask for is an expense report for anyone who has paid for parts for the cnc router if they wanted a refund.