So it was brought up by Dave V that the ventilation in the Hive is inadequate. This was in regards to 3d printing resin but after looking at MSDS sheets for multiple cleaners and chemicals we use in the Hive on a regular basis it would appear that the ventilation is not up to snuff for them as well. Acetone being one good example.
At this point I feel if this is enough of a concern to vote no on an item that is not as bad as acetone, its enough of a concern to look at getting us up to par. I assume this would apply to every section of the hive, not just the Fablab area. As well the Fablab should definitely have a good ventilation system as we are dealing with Electronics and soldiering, Which soldier also has a pretty nasty MSDS with it.
If this is a concern of the hive, as stated in the Resin 3d printer vote, what can we do to improve the ventilation?
I am just gonna reply here to make sure this post got published on the board… since it keeps getting brought up in the printer thread but noone is taking the time to respond here. Is this not live or does noone want to talk about it? Ill copy and past the post I sent originally:
So it was brought up by Dave V that the ventilation in the Hive is inadequate. This was in regards to 3d printing resin but after looking at MSDS sheets for multiple cleaners and chemicals we use in the Hive on a regular basis it would appear that the ventilation is not up to snuff for them as well. Acetone being one good example.
At this point I feel if this is enough of a concern to vote no on an item that is not as bad as acetone, its enough of a concern to look at getting us up to par. I assume this would apply to every section of the hive, not just the Fablab area. As well the Fablab should definitely have a good ventilation system as we are dealing with Electronics and soldiering, Which soldier also has a pretty nasty MSDS with it.
If this is a concern of the hive, as stated in the Resin 3d printer vote, what can we do to improve the ventilation?
At the end of the day no one can complain about ventilation, we know we need better yet no one does a thing. Also it is better to not to say something than to say it when it comes to things you know.
Finally, I fully support Daniel!!
A real fume hood is never a bad thing.
So I am glad to verify this is now live. Hopefully more people will post on it now.
To transfer over what was posted regarding this: Kevin posted this: https://amzn.to/2Jnq4n8 Also stated that we should have something that “provide 6 air changes/hour” in regards to the 3d printers we currently have and the materials that we can print on that, specifically abs. (the studies i saw did not differentiate pla vs abs, but it is commonly assumed abs is the worse out of the two)
I'm all for better ventilation, if you are willing to lead the installation, I don't mind helping put together a design/plan and bill of materials. It was mentioned in the warden's meeting tonight that we could very likely scavange free blowers watching Craigslist and checking junk yards. I'll work on some rough calcs for the locations and CFM that we should be targeting for the size spaces and activities we have.
I have HVAC friends I can get furnace blowers from. Just need some time.
-D
110 or 220?
Also are we talking about more circulation and capturing or true ventilation/exhaust?
Almost seems a bigger or additional, wall exhaust fan would be in order for the metal shop, but then there's the argument of make up air and how to heat the space that's already full of leaks... winter is coming...Lol
I think at least for the fablab we just need better air circulation a fan blowing the air outside kinda thing. Beyond the electronics and soldiering, we dont really (or wont really be doing anything) that’s going to be putting up something we need a high powered venthood. (laser has its own so i am not including that.)
We use to have some blowers on top of the now lounge area that I dont ever remember being used. (I could be wrong here.) It may not be a bad idea to get up there and catalog whats up there.
So I guess I'm still confused:
"at least for the fablab we just need better air circulation a fan blowing the air outside kinda thing."
A fan blowing the air outside is an exhaust fan.
A fan circulating the air inside is an air handler/rotator.
There's a blower mounted above the Fablab pallet racks that pulls in air from the wood shop. If your wanting better air circulation you could make sure that's turned on. We could also put in an air handler, with a/some filter(s), if you're talking about just recycling the existing air to get the turn over Kevin talked about.
Paul honestly I Am bringing this up because other people are saying the air ventilation/circulation is not good enough for a piece of equipment which needs less circulation/ventilation than tools we already have. So far only out of them Kevin responded. So I am not sure who thinks we need more of what.
The two typically serve different purposes. Exhaust can be either localized to work or general for the whole workspace. Local exhaust (also called fume extraction) is for removing fumes and particles from a localized source by pushing it outside the the building envelope. If the goal is to reduce air contamination from multiple dispersed sources, the whole space can have exhaust fan(s). Fume extraction and exhaust commonly don’t include any filtering, though some applications do (our dust collector separates large particle dust, but exhausts outside). Circulation recycles the air within the space, generally for the purposes of heating/cooling and/or filtration/purification.
For things that produce fumes, it’s likely best for us to exhaust those things out of the space. chemical filters raise cost significantly and require replacement. Recirculation has the benefit of reducing energy demand for heating and cooling, but that isn’t particularly important to us since we don’t pay for heating and cooling on a per energy used basis.
As I mentioned, I don’t mind doing the quick calcs for what we would need. I am just a bit busy at the moment, so I can’t say when I will get to it.
The 6 air changes/hour could be for either filtered/cleaned recirculation or exhaust so long as the exhaust was coupled with a source of make-up air (vents allowing air in from outside). That number is one I found as a recommendation in a university’s guidelines document for spaces containing 3D printers printing ABS, I would need to do some quick searching on the other activities we have in the space to see what is recommended.
As to Paul’s question of 110v vs. 220v, we could probably get away with either or both… Greg probably knows best what space is available in the breaker panels. 110 might be best, as it would likely allow us to just connect to existing circuits.
Thanks professor! I do appricate you sparing us from citing the ASHRAE standards on fume exhaust rates. Lol jk of course.
Hey Paul, do you have any idea if an 'air to air’heat exchanger ( not sure of correct name) would be a reasonable thing to include? Yes we don’t directly pay heat and AC, but on extreme days it’s hard for the systems to keep up. Recapturing some of that temperature might be helpful.
Nancyg
An air to air would be of very minimal use to us. For the low temperature difference between exhaust air and external make up air the heat transfer/recovery would be negligible.
Agreed; in conjunction with the leaky building it would be unnecessary, but good thinking!