I would suggest that another consideration is that we are talking about getting a table saw for a wide-ranging group, not a select coterie of experienced professional.
We will have folks who just did the safety course all the way up to semi-professional craftspersons.
We have to accommodate the noobs, too.
If we don't approach the noob experience with the proper degree of caution, the group could end up on the wrong side of a claim of "gross negligence" which would obviate any liability waiver.
Maybe Dave Bs dad could comment on that, as I imagine a teaching facility would make its faculty aware of how the facility deals with such risks.
If you see a situation that is unsafe, please bring it to the attention of the board or officers, and we will work to address it in an expeditious manner.
We are a creative and cooperative space, and a space that is occupied with heavy, dangerous, and potentially hazardous tools. – and if you’re unsure of how to perform anything at the hive in a safe manner, please let someone know (and if you’re unsure who “someone” is, feel free to ask me, and I’ll direct you to the right person or we’ll figure it out together) and we’ll show you how to do it the safe way. If you don’t feel that you can do it safely, please ask for help – there are enough folks here who can figure it out and do whatever’s needed to be done safely.
There are inherit risks in everything that we do at the space – anything from soldering burns, kitchen fires, wood kickbacks, metal shrapnel being tossed places from an off-center milling bit, beer explosions, vending machine tip-overs, to the occasional wet floor. As a group we should strive on reducing the amount of risks that are present in the space and work on making the space inviting and safe to new members who ramp up on learning the tools, equipment, and culture of the space while reminding folks that their personal safety should always be their first priority.
The question here is whether the space wants to pay extra for this safety feature. Personally, I’m not worried about using the saw without it, but am much more comfortable taking that risk for myself than for anyone else.
I feel about such things the same way I feel about defensive driving. It doesn’t matter how much right of way you have if you are in an accident. It’s much better to avoid the accident if you can, even if you would technically not be at fault. Physics doesn’t care about the rules of the road. Similarly, no amount of “you didn’t know how to use it right, it’s your own fault” will be of any consolation when picking up someone’s finger. REASONABLE precautions (i.e. ones that don’t stand in the way of the mission of the space) should be taken when we can do so without stepping into “you can’t use that soldering iron because you might burn yourself” territory.
So my vote would be (depending on how much more it really costs) to get it. It’s a really cool feature.
I’m not a member, but I’ve been paying attention to table saws for several years in anticipation of buying one. My two cents, which is what it is worth, is that the Saw Stop is a superior product. I wouldn’t buy anything else. I would buy a spare brake unit so it can be quickly replaced if necessary. The legal reasoning of companies that don’t make these safe saws is dubious. In my opinion, 99% (literally) of the negative reports of the Saw Stop is FUD from people trying to sell products that are less safe. Table saws are dangerous in ways that most people don’t understand. People are human, and they get in a hurry, or stay up late working on a project, or they’re going through a break-up, and you just can’t count on people thinking through every safety aspect of a task. I personally value my fingers enough to eat the cost of an occasional false brake event.
Full disclosures:
(1) I will make no money from the sale of any type of table saw.
(2) About 14 years ago I cut myself using a 12-inch miter saw when I reached in to clear a little off-cut piece before the blade stopped.
(3) When I was in Jr High, my grandmother needed a fallen log cleared with a chainsaw. I was checking to see if the blade was being oiled by holding the tip near a log with the engine revved (it throws a line of oil you can see). She tapped my shoulder, I turned my head, and accidentally leaned forward. In chainsaw technique, this is really bad. The blade tip hits, gets traction, and kicks the saw blade towards your face. My front hand had two of those cheap white cotton gloves on. My hand caught the blade, and there was a puff of cotton dust. I got really lucky. The outer glove had a strip about 2-inches wide that had disintegrated. That outer glove was ripped off my hand. The tighter inner glove had a rip the width of the chain. My hand had a many centimeter-long linear cuts over about four inches across my entire palm (it was about 1/4-inch wide by four inches long). I’m much more careful now than I was then, but I’ve never been reckless. This stuff happens fast. If I was only wearing one pair of those gloves, I would have been on my way to the hospital. Today I wear only heavy leather gloves with a chain saw, and I set the saw firmly on the ground to check blade oiling.
Matthew
P.S. I was interviewed on WVXU 91.7FM last week about Orienteering. I was really nervous when I started, but I relaxed enough to be halfway coherent and a little bit interesting: Audio available here: http://wvxu.org/post/winters-walk-woods
I appreciate everyone's feedback with regards to this.
There is a working group that is actively looking at what type of purchase
would benefit the hive the most -- and I think that the conversation needs
to continue over in that list.
If you are interested in joining the conversation, you can do so at:
That’s fine, though I hope when it comes time to vote there will be a presentation of whatever the tool committee comes up with and not just “who’s in favor of buying a new saw, raise your hands.”
That is, I get why that group has it’s own mailing list to keep mundane committee only business off the main list, but the volume of traffic on this list isn’t high enough that I personally was in any danger of being overwhelmed.
If anything, I’d like more visibility into what’s going on at the hive on the list, though I know that’s my own fault for missing so many meetings.
Joe and I are having trouble accessing the committee discussion board. Is there somewhere for us to retrieve or reset his membership info so we can log in? I couldn’t find anything on the wiki, was I not looking in the right place?