Proposed vote on a personal information privacy policy

Fellow members:

This post is to propose and request a serious vote of the membership. Respectfully hear me out.

A member has requested to have a formal list of the names of current members, and perhaps their email addresses as well. The stated purpose for this request seems benign, or perhaps may not, but that is not the point.

One would think this is an innocent and reasonable request, yes? Or is this YOUR personal information that we should protect? What do you say?

As your treasurer, per the bylaws, I have certain fiduciary responsibilities which I take very seriously. Our bylaws state that our organization keep current and correct records, which we strive to do. They further state that any member of the corporation has the specific right to examine and make copies of the records of accounts, minutes, and corporate records. Within the leadership, I have reviewed the text of the bylaws. In my reading, the bylaws do not provide guidance to explicitly allow or deny disclosure of the membership names and personal information. I see this as an error of omission that requires correction.

Past consideration within the leadership to publicly post such information has been overruled by privacy considerations; even though the meeting minutes and mailing list posts already reveal some of this information for some members. It has been suggested that formally withholding this information seems petty, like we are a secret organization, which we are not.

Therefore, this post is to address this question by requesting a vote of the membership for one of two choices, A or B.

Choice A - The membership votes to explicitly authorize release of the list of ALL current member names and email contact information upon the formal request of any member. The liability waiver form is to be edited to reflect that this information can be released upon a member request. The bylaws are to be edited to this effect.

Choice B - The membership votes to implement a general policy to respect the privacy rights of individual members. The liability waiver form is to be edited to include a personal privacy clause. The signer/member must check a box and sign to OPT-IN and override the general privacy policy. Checking the box authorizes the release of their individual name and email address in response to a member request. For members who do not check the box to OPT-IN, their personal information will be redacted in any released information in response to member requests. The bylaws are to be edited to this effect.

Since the current liability waiver will be updated in either case, current members shall be required to re-affirm their membership by signing the updated form and then signing the in-effect form on an annual basis to keep their membership current and in good standing. This A/B vote is to be conducted in a special meeting, requiring a quorum of 50% of total membership. The meeting shall take place on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 7:30 pm.

Thank you for thoughtfully considering this requested vote.

Jim Dallam
Treasurer and Registered Agent
Sad Bee, Inc. d.b.a. Hive13

I think that releasing all the records is a bad idea. I also personally don’t want my information released. There is some information that needs to be private. For example we don’t post the pin to the front door either, nor should we give it out to anybody who asks.

Further in the interests of openness and transparency, it seems that the party doing this requesting should do so in an open and transparent manner. It seems best for them to bring this up at a meeting, or on the mailing list, rather than going to leadership. I’m not sure what they might hope to gain by not revealing their interest.

Maybe a better example would be that we don’t give out the numbers to our bank accounts to any member who asks either.

We also need to look into the legal requirements not just in our bylaws but by state and federal law for the release of information within members. There are certain legal rights that members get, as being a vested member (by definition we would fit alot of these criteria by having the ability to vote.)

I by no means am a legal expert in these fields but I am aware we may need to look into these laws first before making this decision blindly.

Oh hell no I don’t want my private info given out on a whim! and if the membership decides to change policy to do so… I think I would reconsider being a member…

Or maybe I’ll be a member long enough to request my own member list. It’s harmless, I assure you. I’m just going to sell it to spammers to make a few bucks.

The most I’d consider acceptable here (and many likely won’t even agree this far) is allowing members a list of names of current members. I consider email addresses, and pretty much all else, as things that should stay private.

If someone needs to privately contact an individual member, I feel the normal social nature of the Hive has served this fine since its inception: People ask the member or someone in regular contact with them, and they’ll provide what they’re comfortable with. If the member can’t be found, people ask someone with access to member records and it’s up to them to decide. If something needs brought to the attention of the membership at large, I feel that existing channels also cover that.

My primary concern is that I specifically do not want Hive13 to release personally identifiable information.

If someone really wants such information they can seek it elsewhere (the state, google, whatever). However, I do not believe that the board or leadership of Hive13 have the right to release this information – such information should be released on the terms of each individual member.

Requiring leadership to release all information (not just practical information, such as fiscal records, records of the board, etc) centralizes authority too much and removes individual members’ personal freedoms – notably “the freedom to be let alone” as supreme court justice Louis Brandeis stated.

Organizational transparency is very important, but this is not such a case. Personally identifiable information does not belong to the corporation, it belongs to the individual.

Lorin

Hodapp, I would probably limit it to a list showing the number of members, types of membership, and dues payed. Such a list should be anonymous, in my opinion. For procedural and business matters, that is enough.

I’ll definitely be voting “B”. I agree with Lorin’s position–membership statistics should be freely available, but anonymous.

As Jim described, this is a grey area in our bylaws, and I’m glad it will be clarified.

Mike

“Since the current liability waiver will be updated in either case, current members shall be required to re-affirm their membership by signing the updated form and then signing the in-effect form on an annual basis to keep their membership current and in good standing.”

It’s also not clear to me why annual re-signing should be necessary here (or am I misunderstanding what “in-effect form” means?); this sounds like just extra bureaucracy.

I agree with Hodapp with a small adjustment,

Name, dues paid, and membership types are reasonable.

Student
Member
Cornerstone

I believe that your member type and dues paid should be official record and available for review. Contact information begins getting into a grey area, I like the option of being prompted to opt out.

Not that I am suggesting this is the case but, I believe part of the purpose this was placed in the bylaws was to have a set of checks and balances in place. Say for example if leadership is not paying dues but can only be reviewed by leadership, this can allow leadership to remain as a member indefinitely and stay unchecked as why would they audit theirself and admit guilt of non payment.

The above (in my post) don't seem unreasonable in my opinion for a "legitimate" request, that being said I'd rather it not be a publicly posted list either. I mean law enforcments may target "hackerspaces" one day just because they are hackerspaces.

If leadership or who ever is doing the audits is lying about paying their dues, I’m not sure how a published list would avoid that problem, since it would just be another place to lie about paying the dues. Further if you don’t trust leadership there seems like a lot of other shenanigans they could get up to that would make the dues seem like small potatoes. Finally to really check this, you’d need to do a proper audit with accountants and the like.

I’m not sure how a published list would avoid that problem, since it would just be another place to lie about paying the dues.

I didn’t suggest publishing any list

Further if you don’t trust leadership there seems like a lot of other shenanigans they could get up to that would make the dues seem like small potatoes.

No argument here

Finally to really check this, you’d need to do a proper audit with accountants and the like.

Why couldn’t you or I perform the audit this is a volunteer based organization?

I didn’t suggest publishing any list

Further if you don’t trust leadership there seems like a lot of other shenanigans they could get up to that would make the dues seem like small potatoes.

Well I suppose I did by saying I agreeing with Hodapp however I placed my adjustments in my message.

So far, it sounds like we ought to find out what Hive 13 is legally required to have available & to what extent (for perusal? for download? only accessible by the members?),

then we can decide what to opt-in for on the waiver.

I agree that less info available for access is more desirable.

As far as I am concerned member privacy beats all other concerns. I will
be voting B.

- Ian B.

While I’m usually for caution with regard to legal concerns, I think we should forgo the expense of a lawyer for this question. I can’t think of a single reason why the law would compel organizations to make lists of members with contact information available upon demand. I can think of several, mostly revolving around privacy concerns, where doing so might cause legal problems for the organization.

Forget my previous comments. I am going to say what I truly believe, which happens to be what I said when this question was initially asked.

NO

Not A nor B. NO.

Let’s not get this confused with the fact that our by-laws need revising - they do. That is another issue though (I do not mean to slight my fellow board members – adding protection explicitly is a good idea too). Still, though, even without said clause, we can say NO.

We are an organization of freely associating individuals. We are a group of friends. I would not give my friends’ personal information to a third party no matter how nicely they asked.

As far as the law goes, who gives a shit? Or does anyone really think the law gives a shit about whether the board of Hive13 gives out a bunch of names and addresses? Answer is still NO.

This is the last I want to talk about this preposterous crap. If others choose to give out personal information, then I will end my membership. I expect better, and should everyone else.

Lorin

“If others choose to give out personal information, then I will end my membership. I expect better, and should everyone else.”

I couldn’t agree more. It is absolutely 100% unacceptable that someone would request that information, or that we would even entertain it.

Bill

I’m not in favor of A or B either.