I believe an RFID reader sounds a bit excessive, I mean the backdoor has a
sign on it something like "Badge Reader Coming Soon" which had apparently
sat there so long that someone scribbled on it and wrote "Never" and then
wrote on an additional time "Sometime". There is still no RFID access at
said door and this sign has been there predating my first visit to the hive.
However, I believe a sign and posting the cost of the material would likely
be sufficient currently there is a camera posted at the front door which
would include a view of the individual that would be removing plywood from
the current location.
I do know that anyone including myself that has gotten word from coy what is based on the honor System and it did not get abused. He would square up with people after the fact of them grabbing the wood. I do agree a camera if it is thought to be needed.
I drew up a real quick proposal the other night just to at least have something in writing like requested and I covered the topic setting an inventory limit and have it be over seen by someone. I also touched base on diversifying the wood that we would have stalked in the inventory. I do not think we need all 22 sheets right off the bat however if we can come to terms with an acceptable inventory number spread out between the top three kinds of wood used at the hive.
As for payment of the wood would a simple payment to the highest PayPal address along with name, description, etc be an easy way to track sales along with a Google doc, or binder at the wood storage?
As I understand it, we did not want to have things (like sheets of plywood) above the lounge entrance due to dangers of something landing on someone because it fell off either when trying to get something down or otherwise. Simply repeating something I have heard prior to setting up that rack and repeated by members after it has been setup, so has this changed?
Also, my understanding is that part of what started this entire discussion is that if you buy in bulk, you get better prices. So are we ignoring that as a consideration for this proposal?
I will say, so far this is the most thought out suggestion and because of that is the least objectionable. I think the greatest issue I have currently is the location of the storage.
Right now there are 22 sheets of 1/2" plywood, which each weigh about 70 pounds for a total of 1,540 pounds. I don’t think this is that far outside the range of safety for a pallet rack, but it seems like we should be checking on this. Right now I believe the rack is correctly installed, but I wouldn’t want to bet somebody’s life on it. If the rack fails with somebody under it, that’s not going to be pretty.
Storing this, and other materials seems like a good use for the addition space we just opened up in the other room.
I find it funny that someone is worried about flat materials on a (relatively) low (relatively) level pallet rack considering the tornado in solid form that lives on some of our larger pallet racks… It’s the fucking hive. If you want a safe place, find a ball pit or a padded room. Carefully and properly stored wood is far less of a falling danger than any of the older racks in the space chock full of precariously perched boxes. I’ve been hit by falling stuff before - I know firsthand!
Point: a couple dozen sheets of plywood aren’t any more dangerous than anything else already stored at the hive.
I’ll remember to take a picture of the storage at my friend Travis’ shop next time I’m down there. There are half a dozen 6-12L diesel engines with cast iron blocks sitting on a shelf. The lightest of them are probably about 900lbs. I’d say there is easily 7500lbs on the shelf. Other racks have various diesel equipment in pieces, like a ~10-11 ton digger in 3 or 4 pieces. Easily 4000+lbs / shelf. He has the same teardrop style racks we do, purchased the same way we purchased ours - cheap from places that were shutting down.
Point: unless someone screwed up badly assembling them, we are nowhere near the weight limit of the rack.
Point: a couple dozen sheets of plywood aren’t any more dangerous than anything else already stored at the hive.
I disagree, it’s 22 sheets at 1,600 pounds which is far more weight than anything else I know of stored on the shelves. Further I’d rather avoid adding to the danger if possible. For example I spent several days and a couple of trips to the Homeless Despot to make sure that the new pipe clamp rack was securely bolted to the wall. I don’t want to be responsible for hurting somebody if I can help it.
That having been said I’m fairly comfortable with the current plywood arrangement. The shelves were securely installed, and the legs bolted into the floor using carriage bolts and washers. In fact I removed and re-installed a few of the previous bolts to make sure they also had washers.
Point: unless someone screwed up badly assembling them, we are nowhere near the weight limit of the rack.
That’s good to know, since I must admit some ignorance in the weight limit of pallet racks. Usually I wouldn’t worry, but I don’t think we’ve got anything else that’s hitting that amount of weight in one place.
There is no way we are anywhere near the weight limit for those racks. I’d feel comfortable under them if they had five tons on them. If you’re worried about any issues when people are getting wood down, just don’t walk under them when they’re up there, simple enough. Those shelves aren’t going to tip over without serious, concerted effort.
Also, Tim, the never/sometime scribbling on the one sign was done by me. That sign was up there when I first started coming to the Hive.
Currently the beams are about 120", it’s unclear what the beam size is. If it’s 3.5", the smallest size, then we’re talking about 2,600 lbs, which would be about double what we currently have. Larger sized beams carry more, up to 5-7,000 pounds, which is probably more than we’d ever have up there, unless somebody makes a bulk concrete purchase.
Anyway, I feel more comfortable having done some checking, hopefully that’s useful to other people as well.
All well and good, but these ratings assume that there are at least 2 shelves or bracing cross members. We currently have a rack up which is not braced.
As far as wood goes, I don’t need any, and neither do a lot of people. Also we voted to remove it. The date has already past. It was a binding vote for all involved, so we need to think about that first. Has ownership been forfeited by this? By whom?
Purchasing consumables at cost and then selling them at cost sounds like a bad business plan, and a bad investment of non-plywood-buying folks dues. I consider the money I pay / give to hive an investment. Tools, rent, infrastructure, and all the other things that bring all members in regardless of whether they CNC or code or both or none.
Anyway, this looks like a group buy. Traditionally at Hive, group buys are initiated by all those members who wish to invest and benefit. I encourage everyone who uses or needs this plywood to get together and do a group buy. Seems like a reasonable way to obtain the exact amount people need, no more, no less.
I see your point with the hive spending money on it and hoping to break even, it’s still money tied up. I guess more or less I was viewing a system where people who did not use long term storage would have the ability to snag a piece there. Possibly the group buy would be an option. I wasn’t thinking nearly the large of quantity as other ones thrown out have been.
Maybe we should discuss what the actual problems are that we want resolved, as opposed the consultant method of comeing up with a solituion and then applying it to the problems?
This is the 3rd time that my post has gotten blown up my trying to post from my phone into the google group.
1. Do we want to tie up hive funds in storing items onsite?
2. If we store items onsite, are they for classes only or can members purchase from it
3. If we store items onsite, who manages the inventory?
4. Do we have sufficient storage onsite for sheet materials?
Are there other questions we should answer before devising a solution? It is possible that once we have agreed on what we want, we might find that one of the suggestions we already have is wildly inappropriate, or as perfect you could get at the hive.
Do we want to tie up hive funds in storing items onsite?
Resounding “MAYBE”. Depends on the situation. Like other purchases, you weigh the cost (hive $ and space) vs benefit (making it easier for members to DO STUFF). I think that this plywood purchase would be worth it, although I can certainly respect that people who don’t use much plywood may disagree.
If we store items onsite, are they for classes only or can members purchase from it
Both members and classes–that’s the idea behind the plywood purchase anyway
If we store items onsite, who manages the inventory?
This is an important question and should be answered before final decisions. Probably the COO or area warden makes the most sense, if they are willing to take the extra responsibility.
Do we have sufficient storage onsite for sheet materials?
Again probably a matter of opinion. The current vertical wood storage is OK, but space is limited–either we need to expand or get more aggressive about kicking out less active storage to make room for new members. Horizontal storage as in this proposal would be nice. discussion of warping and horizontal/vertical/clamped storage has been beaten to death in other threads.
I think that the problems to be solved here are:
CNC classes should have a small stock of Hive-owned plywood ready to go. ( simple problem that should be solved, although it could be done with a more modest buy proposal)
Having a stock of hive-owned plywood for member purchase would make it easier/faster/cheaper to start projects. (More controversial–I like the idea, but I respect opinions not wanting to tie up money and space this way)
Increase sheet storage capacity with safe horizontal storage space. (adding additional crossbeams to the pallet rack as per this proposal should address concerns about bracing)
Need to end CoyWood quagmire. Politics, votes, dead horses, rule breaking, etc. I think this proposal confirms the previous vote to end unequal member storage, while also keeping the benefit of having a purchasable plywood stock in the Hive. Of course we could also make a clean break by simply ejecting all of Coy’s plywood from the Hive (the majority of the plywood will still be leaving with this vote). Or we could leave it in Coy’s ownership with a “special access” legal agreement as Dave B proposed. Tiffany’s proposal seems to me like a compromise that could minimize ruffled feathers, although it does come with a price tag.
Currently not seeing a problem with the temporary project storage. Everybody who wanted a slot got one. We did have a problem before, but the Dec31st woodshop purge fixed those issues. If we get people on the waiting list again I’ll be more aggressive about removing people who have missed the “temporary” part of temporary project storage.
That having been said, putting horizontal storage into the newly opened annex should be explored.
I don’t want to derail this thread, so if this requires further discussion, let’s start a new one.
Here are some things I am willing to do to help accomplish having flat wood storage. I am very flexible in finding a resolution that we can agree upon. I realize not everyone wants this but there are enough people that do to consider it. There are many projects we approve as a group where only a few members actually use the end product. IE How many people voted for the welder, laser, etc but haven’t used it.
I will fund the purchase of the wood (if others want to contribute that’s good too) and be responsible for posting a clear way to purchase it at my cost. This way Hive13 funds are not being tied up.
I’d like to make available more affordable 5x5 Baltic Birch sheets with different thicknesses (space permitting). Baltic Birch is a great wood for CNC projects and if bought right in it’s native 5x5 size it’s very economical. IE a 1/2" patch free (which to my knowledge you can’t buy in Cincinnati without special order) can be purchased for ~$27. I believe Andrew (and myself many months ago) purchased a half inch sheet from Doppes with patches for ~$50.
I’d sign something as Dave suggested which holds Hive13 harmless.
The only funds Hive13 would have involved is possible purchasing a new rack for the new space if that’s the direction things go.
If not we can just use the current storage above the lounge.
If it’s believed that this needs to better secured we can do this. It’s been mentioned that the right side isn’t perfectly vertical and there are not enough cross braces. I’m not a structural engineer but being attached to the other structure does provide some cross support.
Again I am very flexible on how we implement this. Just trying to give ideas and things I am willing to to.
First I’ve heard of it. Looked like there was enough room when Coy and I were moving the plywood out of the rack. I’ll see what I can do tonight/Saturday.
Ok, Mike is going to be at the meeting tonight - Oliver is not feeling well and really wants mommy, so I am home with him. I would like to vote yes on this proposal - I believe Elly is going to have multiple votes and Mike is going to try and get me in a Google hangout with him.
One of the questions I believe was who would be in charge of the wood and I think the logical choice would be the CNC warden
Sorry hit send quicker than expected. As far as cross members cost I would propose the remainder of what was unused for the last pallet rack purchase that was approved - I believe it was around 350$ leftover from the 1000$ proposal that was approved. Jim can probably give you the exact number.
Tiffany
