In which Ry is displeased by the state of the universe.

Hi gang.

I mentioned during the December 8 meeting that I’d like to vote on replacement costs for the big CNC’s spindle motor. I was stuck on call for work during the following meeting, and I’ll be out of town through January 5. I want to talk about this one in person, so the vote will be postponed until January 12.

In the meantime, we should discuss what has become a disconcerting trend at Hive13. We see a continual lack of respect for our space and by extension our fellow members, that sometimes makes it intensely frustrating to work here. We all have busy lives, and when we manage to eke out a few precious hours for hobby work at the space, it really sucks to walk in and find the tools broken, missing, or covered in debris.

In our most recent example, multiple people expecting to use the big CNC last week found it in two of those states. Coy arrived at the hive to find Marvin using the machine to cut beer holders. He wasn’t around when Marvin left, so we don’t know precisely what happened. We do know that when Jon later went to use the CNC, a cutter bit was still in the spindle and a deep beer sized hole was carved into the spoilboard. The spindle’s nut was also apparently seized onto the threads. DaveB kindly took the spindle to a friend who owned tooling to remove the nut, and they discovered that some of the threads had sheared off inside. Whether this was due to overtightening, or to the amount of force used to remove the nut, will probably remain a mystery for the ages.

While the big CNC remains under construction, certain critical pieces have been placed in a tool locker. Coy, Jon, Elly, and I have access. Lorin and Mike, see one of us for the combination. At present, no one else has proven able to fly solo on the machine. (As an aside, I still count myself among this group. Despite understanding how the machine works, I only use the CNC when the aforementioned people are around to catch my mistakes.)

As for the rest of the high dollar tools, I realize that training paths and contacts could be posted more clearly. Most of this is available on the wiki or has been beaten to death in meetings, but I think it might be useful to also resume posting this information on the tools. I started work on some appropriate signage this weekend. These were quickly created from my best recollection of who has used the tools, so just let Jon or I know if your name should appear on the list and does not. The laser and Mill/Drill lists are noticeably shorter than they should be.

Tools will break. We’ll continue to fix or replace them. That’s just standard operation for Hive13. What’s becoming problematic, is people not bothering to train for the complex or dangerous (or both!) tools before using them, not reporting damage when it happens, and failing to put the tools back into working order before they leave. Part of the responsibility of Hive membership is chipping in to maintain the space. Minimally, this means cleaning up and putting the tools back as you found them before leaving. It also means replacing broken tools, or reporting them to the mailing list, a warden, or an officer.

The Hive is entirely member supported and operated. No one’s taking a salary for being here. Leaving problems behind simply dumps them on your fellow members. Failing to notify us of broken tools sometimes ruins our plans for several days. I don’t think that physically preventing tool use is a good long term fix, but it may come to that at some point. I’m presently at a loss for other options. Suggestions are very welcome.

None of this is a policy change. Yet. It’s a simple reiteration of things we should already understand as members of the Hive13 community. I suspect we’re not saying these things often enough, so I will begin doing so more frequently. If anyone has input or ideas about better ways to address these problems, now would be an ideal time to share.

  • Ry



Please call me tomorrow at 305 -399-0146 as I find your rant of an email to be dishonest and factless based.

Please jump in here.


Holly hell, all he did was state observations and how the equipment was left. I know ryan would not jump to conclusion nor jump someone’s ass. He was just making a point about the tools and things like showing up and stuff not taken apart and cleaned for the next person. I totally understand if something happens and time is needed etc lol I have even broken tooling bots om the lathe…I ordered replacements the next day. This is not a personal attack from how I read it and a lot of people we’re wondering what happened to the cnc, he rmerely gave a credible answer as to who was there and what was going on. However it has become a general concensus that people who put crazy money and work into what we have and something happens they are concerned. I myself tried to come down to use equipment tonight however thr space was wrecked and s machine fouled up to where I did not use it because of good chance of causing damage. I would not take this as an attack at you, if you are around the hive much you will clearly understand why people were wondering what happened and who was there when it happened. I came in the day where brainstorming started on trying to remove the spindle nut and there was no documentation at all as to what it happened or why the machine was left how it was as I recall. Ryan is a pretty damn easy person to please and he will gladly give you a little hard time if you do in fact screw something up. But he always does it in good faith and people figure out how to train and work around it to keep it from happening again. I can personally speak from experience with breaking things that he is more than reasonable and patient when given information on when a machine goes down, what happened whether it was user error or straight up malfunction. Lol I hear more smart ass comments from people down there other than Ryan even though it’s just joking when it comes to someone breaking something. With that being said I will in this on the fact that going after his character and that he is displeased with the universe is further than the truth. The man has some incredible patience and steps up to the plate in huge waves along with other members to make the place what it has become. I will give a forewarning that this was all done and speech to text so if any words are screwed up sorry it is what it is lol.

I totally agree.

I’ve noticed a general dislike for spindles . . . . . .

There are some pretty cool tools (also very expensive) that can do some cool things at the hive.

If we want to keep them at the Hive we should take care of them. Considering the hackery available at the Hive I don’t think it would be hard to record all the things that happen and call out those that disobey . . . (that probably doesn’t jive with the overall idea of the Hive).

Maybe we should have a group talk about what stuff we have an how it makes us all better.

I really think the Hive is cool place to do neat work. I wouldn’t have access to one tenth of the gear that exists there on my own.

Perhaps in January we could have a big meeting and talk about the overall idea of the Hive.

I don’t think people are doing things intentionally to do harm. I think it is mostly not knowing and not thinking through. ( but I would love to catch someone abusing the equipment to give them a “lesson”).

How about we talk Tuesday night?

Good times.


P.S. Some of the tools can actually hurt someone (table saw, mill, CNC, etc. ) so we need to think about that also.

Sounds good bread I think you hit it head on, I don’t think people breaking things intentionally, however some of the cleanup and just general lack of maintenance that people are doing when it is needed while they are using the machine is definitely something we need to hit hard on. Lol there are certain reasons why I have not undertaken some of the equipment on my own because I do not want to become that guy and ruin it for everyone. However even if I did I would show up to the meeting put my head down and make the walk of shame with the frisbee lol

Thank you for making signs, we discussed this was a good step to make certification more visible and obvious. Also, thank you for addressing this ever increasing issue that we are having at the Hive. As a warden, I see messes, tools left out or in inappropriate spots, tools damaged, etc. each week. A little is to be expected in a communal workspace, but the lapses we had before our amazing mass cleaning months ago, are back again, and too frequent.

That being said, I am still strongly opposed to tools being locked away. Let me clarify … I support the long talked about tech-solution of the few tools being RFID accessible, which could prevent untrained people from being hurt or damaging equipment; but rather, I am opposed to tools being physically locked down, especially hidden and out of reach of most of the membership.

To me, locking down tools isn’t the best solution to the long term problem of responsibility and our community-cultural awareness at the hive. It really does come down to respect for the space and for fellow members. We are all adults, and we should be responsible and considerate (should being a key word). Locking tools away goes against the foundation and philosophy of our shared common workshop.

Keeping a log of problems as Brad mentioned, confidentially letting an appropriate member (warden, coo, etc.) know of a mistake/problem, helping to replace or fix a tool, cleaning up a bit more than just your own mess when you leave, checking documentation or asking a question first, THESE fit with our ideals.


I don’t really care about the tone of an email. As I said before the email factless

  • I was trained by Coy two weeks prior to using the big cnc

  • I own a cnc myself so I am very familiar on how it works

  • Coy was there while I was using the cnc and I left him there .

  • When I left the machine was fully operational. So there was no need to report anything.

  • Coy advised me via SMS later that the spindle nut had to be removed by Dave per Jon request.

  • 2 weeks later Ryan sends out email to entire hive without calling or emailing me first to understand what the facts were.

This is disrespectful and creates unnecessary drama amongst the group. I have high respect for what the Hive and members have to offer and would expect that same respect.


This isn’t about you, Marvin. This is about an ongoing problem and you just happened to be the last person to stand out. Chill out.

I don’t know whether you realize it or not, but Ryan Hershey was one of your biggest advocates in this mess. I don’t know if I can quite quote him or not but… In response to the question of whether you should be asked to pay for the spindle damaged while you were using the machine, Ryan’s response was something along the lines of “I’m not sure that would be such a great idea. Marvin is one of the few people who is willing to try things and make cool stuff. I’m not sure I want to scare him away by being too punitive.” I don’t know about you, but I think that’s someone who has your back not someone who is trying to put you down.

I for one don’t give two fucks that you overtightened the spindle badly enough to shear a thread. (Yes, this is what happened. My buddy that helped remove it worked as a diesel mechanic for 10+ years, a machinist for 5+ and is generally one of the people I take anything mechanical to when it breaks for an autopsy because he has the breadth of knowledge and experience to identify why things failed. Now he does failure analysis for Toyota. Go figure.) Shit happens. Now we know that a torque wrench with a claw foot is a necessary tool for long term operation of the spindle on the CNC to avoid the collet getting over torqued. You can’t expect people who don’t tighten bolts for a living to be able to it consistently and repeatably. Why do you think torque wrenches exists? In and case, live and learn. I don’t think ANYONE here is saying “Oh that Marvin he fucked up the CNC what an asshole boo boo boo.”

Ryan is 110% dead on about everything he said. If you disagree, substantiate your opinion with facts. I don’t think you can do it.

The biggest point that Ryan is rightly pointing out that many tools (vertical mill, 3d printers galore, desoldering iron to name a few I have noticed) have been borked repeatably but ALMOST ALWAYS AVOIDABLY. This isn’t about Marvin. It’s the last in a long line of incidents of tools being damaged or borked purely accidentally without any malice. If you were to take all of the people specifically mentioned changing their name to “he” or “him” and all of the things specifically mentioned changing all their names to “it” the point would be exactly the same. It’s not a matter of who did what - the bottom line is that lots of tools are getting fucked up on a regular basis and the current way of doing things is NOT sustainable.

The Hive is facing growing pains. It’s growing into a more capable place with bigger, more dangerous tools that require more skill and experience to operate correctly. Creating a system which allows complex tools to be used by people who don’t use them every day takes work and effort. It’s a learning experience in itself and it’s rather obvious that the current system isn’t working. Screw whether it SHOULD - CAN the Hive afford to replace/repair expensive tools on a regular basis that are damaged by members? Right now, things are getting broken on a regular basis. I think it’s only a matter of time before someone loses a digit or otherwise needs a trip to the ER. Should we wait for someone to severely injure themselves?

I wish I was smart enough to have the answer here but I am not. I see the problems but not the solutions. No one person or even sub-group of people can solve this problem. This is something that is critical for the larger group to talk about. This is something critical for the group to solve as a group.


Ok Marvin if you want to drag me into it with the “facts” did you clean up after yourself, including removing your cutting tool and cleaning up things? If so the video should be very clear of that and I’m sorry if it was implied that you did the right thing. If I jumped to any conclusions I’m sorry and if someone else chucked up a collet and walked off with that happening i know ryan would give you a fair shake as well. Hell I may be wrong however I do put trust in ryan and others at the hive that the tapes had to be reviewed or someone saw something happen. With that said maybe someone jumped the gun and I’m sorry for that.
Also I think everyone is in agreement that the space is taking care of it and ordering the parts and its just something that happened at the hive and a reminder about what to taking the time to clean up everytime can create. I for one was even called out on that back when I joined helping the power series push and spending crazy hours down there working and not focusing on cleaning up behind us and honestly we left the electric benches cluttered to hell and back. I’m pretty sure everyone is in agreement that the final push was brutal on consuming space at the hive and when it was brought up kind of like this I went shit…my bad and started working on the cleanup of it immediately because I screwed up. Once again though that was me forgetting the golden rule at the hive, you may not have been the one to leave the stuff there because when I got there I was just asked any ideas for getting it off with no anger implied towards anyone. Just frustration that someone had come to work on something and could not due to the dilemma that an out of order heads up would have cleared up immediately, no matter who it was. I just figured they had to look at the tapes seeing how the people in elected spots have acted in the past.

just out of curiosity, is the cnc back up and running? Mike and I were hoping to use it this week for christmas presents if possible.

Look on the right hand side:

What’s the software running the CNC? The Wiki has lots of useful links to program for it, but doesn’t mention what it is.

Is it still Mach3 by Newfangled Solutions?

I thought it was vectric aspire?

I was just making sure that the collet/spindle that was on it was the hives - wanted to make sure it wasn’t like Coys personal one or anything.

We’re getting a bit off topic, but I’ll answer anyways.

Charles - Yep, we use Mach3 since it is what pretty much everyone else uses!

Tiffany - The current spindle I guess is technically Ryan’s until we do a vote to reimburse him (which was done as an oh-crap, lots of people need to use the CNC in the next couple of weeks).


Hello all. I wanted to briefly mention that I’m not ignoring this thread. I just won’t have time to make a detailed reply for a little while.

Today I am.

  1. Having a migraine.
  2. Trying to wrap up two weeks’ worth of work in two days so I can leave.
  3. Trying to beat rush hour and catch a plane.

Item #1 is going great! The rest are a bit sketchy at present.

Quick hits.

Tiffany - The big CNC is working. As mentioned in the original omnibus email, see Coy or Jon for access. I had hoped to have the vote before mentioning that I replaced the spindle out of pocket, so people would decide impartially without possibly feeling obligated to reimburse. My holiday and work schedule have unfortunately not allowed for this.

Charles - The CNC is directly controlled by Mach3. We have successfully generated gcode for the machine with Aspire, CamBam, and Autodesk Fusion 360. Of these, Fusion is free and the Hive has licenses for CamBam.

Everyone else - I’d like to stop with the blamestorming if possible. It’s unproductive at best.

Marvin - I apologize for not contacting you directly before posting. I rolled three major related topics into a single long message. You were not intended to be the focus of the discussion.

My intents were:

  1. To explain my best understanding of what happened to the CNC. This is a necessary prerequisite for calling a purchase vote.

  2. To post something explaining the certification signs. I printed them around midnight the night prior, they had been posted for under a day, and I was already getting questions.

  3. To begin what will hopefully be an ongoing discussion of how to properly communicate Hive13 cultural expectations. These seem to be getting lost over time with the natural membership turnover.

Apologies to everyone if this was confusing. I’ve been pressed for time over the past couple weeks, and felt like I needed to begin addressing these issues before we ran entirely out of year. There’s more to be said, of course. I should be back online in a day or two. Again, I just don’t want to leave the impression that I’m ignoring the discussion.

To those I don’t see until next year… Happy holidays.

  • Ry