I’m excited for a resin print at the hive, I dont think the formlabs printer is a good first buy for the hive.
As Kevin mentioned about drawing tablets, if it gets alot of use sure let look at going higher end but we dont need to start there.
As an alternative to the Formlabs printers (which I would recommend if we decide to go with, wait for the Form 3L) I would recommend the Moai 200, It’s available for preorder currently and estimated to be available by end of May. the Build volume is large the the form 3, but smaller than the Form 3L. The price is also $500 less than the Form 3. The Moai 200 uses a 405nm laser meaning most resins out on the market can be used. It has a heated chamber, Commonly available FEP sheets for its vat. Its layer resolution is boosted at 10 microns (higher resolution than the form 3 at 25microns) but the XY resolution is stated at 70um compared to the Form3’s at 25um.
Build Volumes:
Form 3: 145 × 145 × 185mm
Moai 200: 200 x 200 x 250mm
Form 3L: 300 x 335 x200mm
https://youtu.be/J7njc7HciTg
https://peopoly.net/pages/moai-200-sla-printer
https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/peopoly-moai-200-lse-sla-3d-printer-kit/sk/MT7PN1R1
The form 3L is astronomically expensive and anything that needs that build volume would take a ton of resin…
I’m not sure how important it is to make a decision now since we all sort-of agree we need to wait till other expensive projects are complete and funds regenerate a bit, but the big things that have biased me away from Moai and toward Formlabs are:
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I have seen multiple reviews/comparisons of the two and a common theme is that Formlabs printers just work, and it is actually hard to get them to fail prints, while the Moai are a bit more finicky, likely due to the different peel mechanisms for separating the layers from the tanks bottom and formlabs pre-processor being better at creating reliable supports.
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Apparently the Moai resins (and many other cheaper resins) are much higher VOC/Odor than the Formlabs resins. Formlabs has specifically formulated their basic resins to be low odor and low VOC to reduce the demand for ventilation. Other brand resins (that are cheaper) would require ventilation along the lines of a vent hood exhausting outdoors. I will note, that that is true of many of Formlabs’ more advance resins as well. Most of thier “Engineering” resins are high VOC and require ventilation.
So I am not sure how you have seen multiple reviews and comparisons seeing that that the Moai 200 isnt out yet. You say the 3L is astronomically expensive, but so is the Formlabs’s resin, most likely many people using it will be using ther same resins that the Maoi uses. Which the peeling mechanisms when the formlabs printer is using 3rd party resins is the exact same as the Maoi.
I have 2 resin printers, they dont need ventilation, I am not sure where you came up with that notion, but its just not true.
I should clarify, they dont need that kind of ventilation. A room the size of the Fablab should have enough natural ventilation that it would not be a concern. I have my 2 small resin printers i (which are not much smaller than the form3 build volume at 120 x 68 x 180mm) Both of them run in my 3d printing room (10x10ft room.) mostly without their covers on, I have central AC in that room and thats it, with no issues. The fablab is at least 2 to 3 times the squarefootage as well as (estimated) twice as tall ceilings. I doubt 1 resin printer would need ventilation.
Will the Moai 200 be using a different peel mechanism from the Moai’s previous SLA printers?
As to the ventilation thing, it is in the SDSs for most resins, which I am required to collect and have on hand for use in a workplace environment. I also watched several of Maker’s Muse’s videos reviewing and discussing SLA printers and he mentioned that the Formlabs resins have significantly lower odor than Moai’s. That guy really knows his stuff, he did his graduate thesis on accessibility of 3d printers as an educational tool with a deep dive into all aspects of 3d printing. Great place to go to get info on 3D printers/printing.
https://peopoly.net/pages/moai-200-sla-printer
Just confirmed, the 200 will be the same tilt to peel as previous printers. That peel method puts much higher forces on the print, increasing the likelihood of print failure. Because of this the prints require more supports and bigger touch points, which introduces greater risk for damage when finishing parts.
I would also agree that this might be a purchase for a year or so from now. Traditionally we used to do one big (~5-7k) purchase a year - so we often had a discussion on what is the big purchase we are doing this year, etc. We have done quite a few of those large purchases in recent years - and with the recent discussion on potentially upgrading the space and needing quite a bit of money in the bank to do so - perhaps it would be wise to consider which of the various large money proposals are most needed for this year. As 3d printing doesn’t seem to be the biggest member draw to the hive, it may be pertinent to push the purchase of an SLA printer back.
Just random thoughts from a member who’s been around awhile.
Cheers,
Tiffany
I with you Tiffany, There are definitely better places to put our money in the near future.
Yea i follow Marker Muse, as well as 3d printing nerd, 3d printing professor and a few others… But regardless, why pay more for less. the peel mechanism isnt going to make that much difference, hell the peel mechanism used on the wanhao d7 is a straight lift and I am getting successful prints left and right. Thats a $500 printer
And ventilation: This is gonna become circular very quickly, if we get a form 3 or 3L many people including myself will be using 3rd party resins So if you feel that a venthood should be installed for the Maoi 200, we should be looking at it for any of the Resin printers including the Form 3.
In regards to size of the 3L (something you said early) I would use it regularly for its size alone, even with heavy use of resin.
Tiffany, that discussion on expansion did die out fairly quickly on the mailing boards and I dont see whats the use of limiting large purchases when sitting on $32,000 (end of Feb was the last update on the website Finance page) Especially when our current Income growth averages around $1000+ a month (after fixed bills). 3 months would pay for the Maoi 200, 4 months pays for the Form 3. (base prices.)
Regarding whats a draw to membership, its a possibility that 3d printing isnt the biggest draw because we dont have the right equipment, we have an out of date Ultimaker and a large 3d printer that basically doesn’t work well enough to be used. We dont have any resin printer, which while is 3d printing, its a completely different ballgame for what you get out of it. Apples and oranges really, both fruit but still majorly different. And saying that something we are lacking on, is a reason that we are not getting members is about the same effect as a pizza hut doesnt have alot of people coming in for burgers, well of course not when they dont have it noone is gonna come in for it.
I see the different peeling mechanism as a design game changer.
Right now when I design parts for the Form2 I know supported surfaces come out with a really nasty surface finish and out of dimension. This constrains my designs compared to parts for my Ultimaker.
I’d love to have less design constraints.
JP B
So I dont know how you are designing/setting up prints that is causing that. But that is definitely setting something up wrong, my D7 doesnt even do that as a $500 printer.
I must not have explained myself well. I’m fairly familiar with photoresin printing.
I print functional, engineering parts. Many have very tight surface finish and dimension needs. These push the capabilities of the process in general. Specifically, any supported surface requires specific consideration. Even something as simple as a flatness and parallism call-out isn’t so straight forward for photoresin parts. Right now there’s usually some kind of post-print machining. The more I have to account for post-print finishing the more complicated everything becomes. The Form3 should leave a superior surface finish and require less post-print finishing.
JP B
Funny I can get a pretty damn good surface with a $500 machine. I am " fairly familiar with photoresin printing" as well. But if what you can do with a form 2 isnt good enough where other indivuals are doing it just fine, Again sounds like you are setting something up wrong. Also if your business is printing " functional, engineering parts " a piece of shared equipment at a volunteer ran charity probably isnt the best bet for you anyways, As Kevin said " def keep in mind Hive is not for profit. "