Intro to the mill. Sat Jan 9th 1-3

General
21

Cool, let’s lock in in CNC 10-12 then mill intro 1-2.

22

I’ll post both events to the calendar. I’m also going to take this opportunity to knock the rust off our Eventbrite account. This will provide more orderly attendance tracking now and in the future.

Signup links will come later today. This is a test, so don’t consider signups to be mandatory.

  • Ry
23

Let's use Saturday to start getting everyone familiar with all these ideas and let everyone decide. I'm glad we're talking about this as well. And I'm happy to go with whatever the community as a whole feels most comfortable with.

I'd propose a try before we buy period. We have all 3 available at the space for folks to experiment with.

First, though, is it cool if we start with basics of milling, bits, spindles, mach3, best practices, safety, basic shapes / speeds, etc? Is that cool with everyone?

Lorin

24

Honestly I’d prefer us to go the Vectric route and end the debate so we can get started with classes and move on. It seems like sometimes we like to spend more time at the Hive debating things than actually getting things done. If we try to come to a conclusion as a group it will be next Christmas before a decision is made. It’s like we are part of a large corporation trying to get things done when in actuality we are a small group that should be able to act quickly and decisively. I can almost guarantee that no one has spent near as much time researching or using different software than I have. This was one of the few sticking points (there were others) when I first tried to become the CNC area warden in August (see email below). I came up with 6 different classes, had training material, was willing to even pay for the software out of my own pocket (but be reimbursed through training/certification) but everyone wanted to debate something and give their 2 cents and here we are in January with no clear solution. The only reason everyone is not able to use the CNC is because of our indecisiveness and nothing else IMO.

I’ve done a ton of research and not only do I feel that Vectric is the most newbie/user friendly it appears that other spaces have come to a similar conclusions. They charge money for it because people are willing to pay for it over free solutions, otherwise they would be out of business. One license allows us to install it on every computer in the Hive. If we feel that our space has different needs than everyone else then I’m open to hearing people out before we move forward. I love helping others but my time is valuable to me. I’m still willing to help people with Vectric if that’s the path we choose but I’m not willing to beat myself up trying to help people understand less user friendly software. I’ll let someone else deal with that. Sure there are people here that would totally catch on to any platform we choose but there are others that would not, and if you are responsible to teaching those people why make things more difficult. Also if we ever try to grow membership through classes to the public having better software is also a plus for those less technically inclined.

Initial letter to Jon about becoming CNC warden, letter to leadership, and response to leadership with Jon’s concerns.

Leadership,

I have recently spoken with Jon about becoming the CNC area warden. I’m interested in this position for several reasons but mainly because I have spent a lot of time and money to get the large CNC working and I’d like to know that it’s being maintained. I sat down one evening and put my thoughts on paper on how I’d like to see the CNC area run and sent Jon an email of how I’d do it. You can see my email below:

Jon,

I know we talked about me being the CNC warden the other day, it’s something that I’m really interested in doing but I’d like the ability to be able to run the area how I think it would be best for everyone. The following are the things I’d like to do with the CNC area if I’m chosen for the CNC are warden.

HARDWARE

  • Have separate/duplicate tools that are commonly used on the CNC stored next to it.
    SOFTWARE

  • Get all three machines running the same software stack so once someone gets familiar with one they can run any of them.

TRAINING

  • Have classes for CNC training/certification where everyone can choose something to make that they would actually use.
    STORAGE

  • I’d like to build storage for under the CNC for personal & warden use.

For the hardware part I’d personally make sure I was spending at least $300 annually on tools for the CNC area. This would cover any difference that remained unpaid for my monthly membership and should be able to keep me in good standing. I can provide receipts for everything just so you are comfortable that I am holding up my end.

As far as software is concerned I’d like to use Mach3 and Vectric products. This software stack will run all three of our machines. Vectric even has a post-processor specifically for our Roland. I know there are cheaper (and sometimes free) products out there that are really nice. One example of this is Fusion 360 which after spending several hours with seems very powerful. My only concern is that if I am going to be doing the training Vectric is a lot more user friendly and is MUCH easier for people without CAD experience. I’d like to try to use our CNC to help grow membership and attract people that aren’t all familiar with your typical CAD programs. I’ve looked into their licensing and they have a company license that allows us to install the software on all our computers, not just one. I would consider paying for this upfront and using money generated from classes/certification to offset the cost.

That brings us to training. I’d like to create at least 6 different classes to offer to people wanting to learn to use the CNC. If we can come up that would be great but in the mean time starting with these 6 should be good.

  1. Making a sign $50 - we supply the wood & bits
  2. Corn-hole boards $75 - We given them a new 1/4" bit (this way they can start their collection) they supply the wood or we get it for them and charge them our cost
  3. Corn-hole storage hangers $75 -We given them a new 1/4" bit (this way they can start their collection) they supply the wood or we get it for them and charge them our cost
  4. Beer Holders $75 -We given them a new 1/4" bit (this way they can start their collection) they supply the wood or we get it for them and charge them our cost
  5. My Safe Project $200 -We given them a new 1/4" bit (this way they can start their collection), I will provide the 90 degree V-bit & they supply the wood or we get it for them and charge them our cost
  6. Build your own - Price TBD on project

Let me know your feelings on this when you have time.

After reading my email Jon had one main concern and asked me to email you about it. His concern was that I wasn’t planning to offer any FREE classes for certification. This choice in my outline was by design. To date the Hive has less than $1,000 of funds invested in this machine and I’d like to keep it that way. In fact I wish that things could have been done without any Hive funds but it just didn’t work out that way since our original electronics didn’t work out. In order for me to have the time to make proper training classes and do things the way I’d like to see them done we would need a Vectric Software license. Eventually I’d like to buy a license for Vectric Aspire which costs $1,995 but I believe we can start with VCarve Pro which costs $699 then upgrade later by paying the difference. We have a few different options for getting these licenses one of which is to have the membership take a vote on it and the other is to charge people in some way for using the machine. I’d rather not have the membership pay for the license but have a way for the people using the machine to pay for it. This way we aren’t spending money on the CNC from peoples dues that aren’t using it. The two first ways that came to mind were charging for classes or for minutes to use the machine like we do with the laser. Personally I think charging for minutes is a horrible idea for several several reasons. First, tracking minutes used on the machine just seems like a huge undertaking that I am not willing to monitor and secondly, I believe it stifles innovation because it discourages anyone from wanting to do large projects since you are being charged by the minute. I personally have only used our laser for one project and ended up paying a couple hundred dollars for something I could have done elsewhere for a fraction of the cost. If we really want people to make things here this should never be a concern. So that brings us to charging for classes. I prefer this method because it’s still a way for us to generate money to pay for expenses (mainly software at this point), is easy to track, and doesn’t scare people away from doing large interesting projects. If someone isn’t willing to pay $50 for training/maintenance then they probably aren’t going be using the machine much anyway. At that point they can just pay someone that is certified to cut a one off project for them. If anyone has any other thoughts or ideas I’d be glad to hear them.

25

Coy,

Sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into this.
I agree that VCarve Pro sounds like the right thing to do (especially since we can upgrade later for the difference).
I support putting up a vote for $750 to purchase VCarve Pro. Maybe you could give us a perspective on the differences to the upgrade version.

Everyone loves the idea of “free” software, I actually like Fusion 360, but it isn’t for everyone. It can be intimidating and that is certainly not what we want to do. (The lack of local files is a bit disconcerting also.)

Besides, getting VCarve Pro doesn’t exclude someone from using something else.

I like the paid training classes but I understand a desire to have a free route for people. Some folks have more time than money (and visa versa).

Let’s talk more Tuesday.

Brad

26

I have no problem with free classes, I just wanted to provide other options for us to consider vs asking the general membership to pay for the software. I should be able to make the meeting Tuesday.

Coy

27

I would also support any software or other purchases that benefit our community. I could also contact companies about an education license (discount). Can’t make guarantees, but I’ve never had a software company turn me down if I am using an EDU license to support education in a community venue.

Lorin

28

You can try Vectric but I had correspondence with them last summer where they told me they do have any of those types of discounts/programs available. The only program was becomming a re-seller if you met certain criteria.

Coy

29

Eventbrite signup links are available below for those attending next Saturday’s classes. Again, while signups will greatly assist with event planning, this first run is mostly a test. Don’t be put off of attending by any technical difficulties in the signup process. Just let me know, and we’ll work through any problems.

Thanks.

  • Ry
30

You know… little difficulties like posting the same link twice.

Let’s try that again.

31

Tried signing up with eventbrite, I hope it went right lol see you guys tomorrow

32

You figured it out Kevin correctly Kevin. :slight_smile:

33

For some reason it had me confirm my account twice in the process of a timeout on the app so yeah good to know it went through